The Kinds of Magic

Unknown Date:


Akili ponders. "Calin, you might know this one, since Paw seems to still be occupied. Any idea how many distinct types of magic there are in his world? Not seperate classes so much as major seperations, such as arcane and divine."

Calin says, "I suspect it's a subject for philisophical debate."

Calin says, "I am inclined to say that at a certain level, all forms of power are the same. On the other end of it, every spellcaster class has differences, and sometimes there are differences even within a class."

Calin says, "For example, an Elementalist has fire magic, and earth magic, etc."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Well, see, this came up because of something I asked Paw about. It occured to me that chaos magic, through long association, tends to start making other magical effects malfunction, and because of that, a chaos mage might learn to more specifically figure out how to disrupt existing magic. But Paw stated that it would only affect arcane magic."

says Cal, "divine magic comes through a 'conduit' that might take offence at his magic being disrupted."

Calin says, "Well, we have noticed rather a lot of parallels between wizardry and chaos magic."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Right, we had a very interesting discussion about that once."

Calin says, "Enough to say that wizards and chaos mages draw from the same power source(s?) and do the same kinds of effects."

The hushed stillness falls across the shrubs.

Calin says, "At that level of categorization, I would say that there is arcane magic (wizards, chaos mages... maybe dnd sorcery); elemental magic (elementalists and maybe adepts), divine magic (clerics and paladins)..."

Calin ponders.

Calin says, "I think warlockery for lack of a better name (witches and warlocks)."

Akili asks, "How about faradhims?"

Calin says, "Oh yeah."

Calin says, "I might lump those with elementalist and adept, but I'm not sure just now."

Akili rumbles lightly, "That's kind of what I was thinking, really."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Not because of what they do, but because of some of the limitations on their power. Not working over water, that sort of thing."

Calin says, "I was thinking of what they do."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Yeah.... that too, really."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Burning, weather control, creating elements...."

Calin says, "Elemental magic effects the physical world. Makes lumps of solidness, moves air, etc."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Right."

Calin says, "Arcane magic does complex and unpredictable things, like flat-out breaking any known laws of physics or whatever."

Akili blinks.

Akili rumbles lightly, "There's another tendency with elemental magic: it's not continual."

Calin says, "And divine magic's effects are created by beings with different sets of physical laws interfering with our world."

Calin says, "Elemental magic is continual... and its effects are lasting. So I'm not sure what you're getting at."

says Cal, "magic in general coming from interface with planes where the laws of physics are different..."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Elementalists and faradhims both create effects, but once they're done creating the effect, it has ended. Arcane and Divine magic can be imbued into items."

Calin says, "That does not hold true for adepts though."

Paw purrs, "Wizards/Chaos Magic/Sorcery is all arcane. Witchcraft is similar enough to arcane that I'd say it is arcane. Faradhims and Adepts use a similar kind of magic. Elementalists are somewhat unique."

Calin says, "At least, not for amulet or golem adepts."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Right, which is why I suddenly wasn't sure if they belonged in that category."

"And divine magic? Anything to say on that one?" asks Calin.

Paw purrs, "Blood Mage is related to Witchcraft, so COULD be classified as arcane. A very narrow section of arcane."

Calin nods.

Akili grins, suddenly remembering the Street Fighter class.

Paw purrs, "Divine magic... is very seperate. Clerics, Paladins, Theurgists."

Paw purrs, "And Watchers, come to think of it."

Calin might lump in demonology, though as a subclass... like witchcraft is to arcane.

Paw purrs, "I almost wouldn't qualify divine magic as magic. It's like... asking favors."

Calin nods.

Paw purrs, "Yeah, Demonology, certainly."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Unless I'm mistaken, though, arcane and divine magics can interfere with each other."

Paw purrs, "Right next to Theurgists."

Calin says, "But then... elementalism isn't like magic; it only affects the physical world."

says Cal, "magic, but coming from a being seperate from the caster."

Paw purrs, "That is true, Akili."

Paw purrs, "But only certain spells."

Paw purrs, "Like 'Dispel Magic'."

Akili rumbles lightly, "I doubt most magic comes *from* the caster, Cal."

Calin says, "Well, do to the nature of arcane magic, I'm inclined to say it can interfere with just about anything."

Akili rumbles lightly, "That was the first to come to mind."

Paw purrs, "However, Dispel Magic works on pretty much every kind of magic."

says Cal, "with divine, the outside source is more obvious than with some other forms."

Akili nods to Calin. "Which is why I was intrigued by Paw stating that the chaos version - disrupt magic, as I termed it - would only affect arcane magic."

Paw purrs, "I could dispel a Faradhim's magic with it, though it's more like 'disrupt magic' at that point."

Calin suspects dispel magic would have a hard time with divine/demonic effects.

Calin says, "Akili, it's because you would need a DIFFERENT effect to disrupt other magics."

Paw purrs, "Mostly because as I see it, the ability would pretty much just 'leak' arcane magics into existing arcane magic."

Calin says, "Chaos could... right."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Hm."

Calin says, "Chaos might be able to destroy the fine controls on wizardry fairly easily."

Calin says, "Like lightning hitting a circuit board."

Akili knows dispel magic only works with active magic. A magical barrier around a creature could be dispelled, but a summoned creature could not be dispelled.

Paw purrs, "If you tried to do it to say, an Elementalist, you'd be better off using Weirdness or Chaos."

Paw blinks.

Paw purrs, "Huh. Dispel Magic doesn't jive well with Elementalists."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Nope."

Akili rumbles lightly, "As you said, they're somewhat unique."

Calin says, "No, it deosn't. Probably wouldn't do anything to them."

Paw purrs, "There are very few Elementalist effects that Dispel Magic would affect."

Paw purrs, "An Elementalist 'charm' or 'sleep' probably could be dispelled."

Paw purrs, "But that's... about it."

Paw purrs, "Illusions, maybe."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Huh. So, then, only the Spirit-specific magics."

Akili rumbles lightly, "And only certain ones of those."

Paw purrs, "Illusion is all the elements, actually. To some form or another."

Akili rumbles lightly, "True, although it's not an illusion without Spirit.,"

Paw purrs, "But yeah, particularly effective on Spirit."

The steady calm settles on the grass.

Paw asks, "Really?"

Paw looks up the Elementalist

Akili rumbles lightly, "I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to recall."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Because anything else wouldn't be an illusion."

Paw purrs, "Spirit brings animation to illusions."

Akili asks, "So... what does it take to make a very basic illusion?"

Calin nods. "The elementalist could make a visual illusion using only fire, right?"

says Cal, "building up a physical representation of an image, even a superficial shell, would not be an illusion in the usual sense."

Paw purrs, "Air brings visibility, Earth brings texture and feel, Fire brings sound, Water brings mobility."

Calin says, "And can make texture with earth."

Akili rumbles lightly, "So just air, then. Interesting."

Calin says, "Well, an elementalist is not a spellcaster in the traditional sense."

Paw purrs, "Yeah, an elementalist has to piece together an illusion."

Akili ponders. "Can the activation of an elementalist's powers be detected with spellcraft?"

Paw purrs, "Through backwards methods."

Paw purrs, "Spellcraft, yes."

Paw purrs, "Knowledge Arcana could tell you about Elementalist magics, even."

Akili rumbles lightly, "I wonder, then, if dispel magic could counter an elementalist effect as it's being empowered."

Paw purrs, "Just as Spellcraft allows a Wizard to know what spell a Cleric is casting."

Akili rumbles lightly, "With the right timing."

Paw purrs, "I don't think dispel magic is a 'counterspell"

Paw purrs, "Not certain on that, though"

Akili looks.

Paw purrs, "As it is, though, Dispel Magic to me makes more sense as a Divine magic than an Arcane one."

Calin either. "It's a sorcery, not an instant (to put it in Magic the Gathering terms)."

Paw nods.

Calin says, "Disenchant, not counter."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Let's see. You can end ongoing spells, temporarily suppress the magical abilities of of an item, or counter another caster's spell - although you can't counter spells with an Instanteous duration."

Calin ponders that. "Yeah, I could see 'disrupt magic' being an arcane spell. It doesn't wipe the spell away, it destroys the controls. Lightning to the circuitry."

Paw nods.

says Cal, "the energy of the spell is still there, but the containment is broken."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Hold on. I think what I said is partially incorrect."

Calin says, "And the effect would be as if the spell had been critically failed."

Akili looks up counterspelling.

Paw purrs, "I think Arcane counterspelling would function best as a disruption of the mind."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Ah. The *effect* of an instantaneous spell can't be countered, but the spell it self *can* be."

- itself

Akili rumbles lightly, "For example, if someone was hit by a fireball, you can't dispel the flaming wounds, but you could attempt to counter the fireball itself."

Paw asks, "But not through Dispel Magic. You have to counter the spell by casting the same spell or somethign?"

Paw purrs, "something."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Dispel magic works, but it takes a DC check."

Akili reads.

Paw ahs.

Paw isn't sure how Arcane Magic can counter Divine Magic.

- Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell.

Calin suspects that to a certain extent, dnd magic isn't compatible with our magic.

Calin says, "It takes too broad a view of things."

Paw nods.

Calin grins at the idea of divine magic countering divine magic. "Two deities have an argument."

says Cal, "That could get messy, hopefully not where the casters are."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Yup, clerics can cast it too. According to the handbook, just about every magic-casting class can."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Bards, clerics, druids, paladins, sorcerers, and wizards."

Calin reiterates about DnD spells.

Akili rumbles lightly, "But, as you said... yeah."

Calin says, "I'm inclined to say that dnd spellcaster all use DnD magic, rather than arcane, divine, etc."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Even it has limitations, though. DnD wizards can't cast healing spells."