Calin says, "Paw, I had an idea for a new game."

Calin says, "Though I don't know how the mechanics would work yet."

Paw asks, "So it's more of a story thing right now?"

Calin says, "Sort of."

Calin says, "Card/board game, not computer."

Paw says, "Okay. Whatcha got?"

Calin says, "Each player plays the part of a manipulator. A person who can use their various skills to eliminate their opponents."

Calin says, "Think Highlander. A bunch of people with some sort of special powers, who in the end have to kill each other to the last man."

Calin says, "But in the mean time, they may ensconce themselves into governments or armies or whatever."

Calin says, "A key element is that each player will not know exactly what resources his opponents have."

Calin says, "Imagine Magic/Swami, but we can't see each other's cards until we go to attack."

Calin says, "You can get clues though."

Calin says, "If I have an agent in your city, he may give me info about the gathering of troops there or whatever."

Paw says, "Interesting."

Paw says, "Here's a first stab:"

Calin says, "Are you sort of getting the atmosphere I'm going for?"

Paw says, "You have a gameboard that represents various areas where you can put resources."

Paw says, "And you can put investments face down on the part of the board you want."

Paw says, "So your opponent knows you've invested in Wall Street, but he doesn't know what you invested with."

Calin says, "Right."

Calin says, "Unless he sends in an agent to eat your tasty fruit."

Paw says, "Could be you're trying to make money there. Could be you're trying to take down Wall Street."

Calin says, "Ah, good."

Calin says, "I hadn't figure out what else other than military forces you might use."

Paw nods.

Paw says, "Entertainment industry or simply Media."

Calin says, "Huh?"

Paw says, "That's a serious force."

Calin nods.

Calin says, "Right. A force to gain support of people."

Paw says, "Media, Military, Business, Government, Technology"

Paw says, "Religion, Drugs, "

Calin says, "So each location on the map has a list of resources."

Paw says, "Probably should keep the list short."

Calin nods.

Paw says, "Hm... Interesting."

Paw says, "So maybe the card you put face-down specifies one of those forces. And each location can support 2 or 3 of those forces?"

Calin says, "Hmm."

Paw says, "So the opponent doesn't know if you're investing in Military or Technology."

Calin nods.

Paw says, "And the idea is to build the SuperWeapon or whatever out of various investitures..."

Calin says, "Right. Like a *craft game, first you build up some basic resources."

Paw says, "You have a few Goal cards you can attempt. Each requiring time invested in certain fronts."

Calin says, "Then you use them to build better things."

Paw says, "And on your turn you can put X tokens on the cards you have on the board."

Calin says, "And ultimately, when you're ready, you bring the culmination of all your efforts to bear in destroying your opponents."

Paw says, "And when you have all the right resources... yeah."

Paw says, "And maybe there are some things that are action cards that can use resources too."

Calin nods.

Paw says, "And maybe some of them will work with both Media or Technology... and since your dude is collecting tokens in LA, he is either one. So you can take some of his tokens to power this action card without having to reveal which industry he works in ."

Calin says, "Ah, nice."

Paw says, "But if you take tokens from the dude in San Francisco, you have to show that he's a Tech dude."

Paw says, "Then your guy is outed and you have to take him back into you your hand."

Paw says, "Or maybe it's like Liar's Dice..."

Paw says, "And you don't reveal it unless your opponent calls you on it."

Calin nods. "So the trick would be to send in 'attacks' to force your opponent to reveal his agents, thus ruining their work."

Paw says, "yeah."

Calin says, "I don't think I'd prefer the bluffing part."

Paw says, "But maybe the attacks only work on two types of industries. So you may be taking a chance if you send in an attack that doesn't work on both. Because your opponent could respond by taking his money and running, if you choose the wrong type."

Calin says, "Right."

Paw says, "Hope you're taking notes."

Paw says, "Not to say I'm a genius, but that I'm not taking notes on this, as I am at work."

Calin says, "Not yet, but the muck keeps logs. This game is still in the 'heating up' stage. Eventually it will boil down to something useful, but for now it's best to throw in as many ingredients as possible."

Calin says, "So when you get an agent, you have to decide whether to use him to gather tokens, or to thwart opponents."

Calin says, "Or perhaps both - you send him out to gather tokens, which buff him up. And then you can use the tokens to power other cards, or use the buffed up agent to take out other agents."

Paw says, "How do you choose before placing him?"

Paw says, "Maybe he's a different kind of agent for thwarting and gathering?"

Calin says, "I was thinking you wouldn't choose before placing him."

Paw says, "Which would make him awesome as an agent in a city where he can do both."

Calin says, "But once placed, he could be used for either."

Paw says, "Except he'd be more vulnerable to attack."

Paw says, "Ah."

Paw says, "I was thinking we'd need different card backs for each player, but not if you automatically got one resource token on a card you play into an area."

Paw says, "That way, each player has their own color of resource tokens."

Calin nods.

Calin says, "So if we imagine a world where the Dark Lord Sauron is bending all his will toward domination, at the same time that the Dark God Torak is building his forces and the Ungod Matro is undermining the powers of Good... you might have a good setting for the game I was trying to flesh out the other day."

Calin says, "In the end, only one can rule the world... but until they are ready to strike, they must act with secrecy and deceit."

Akili suggested the game name of 'The Dim Side' : 'You're a Dark Lord. You hate the Light. But after discovering that no light makes it difficult to read, you embraced the power of the Dim Side. Unfortunately, so did many other aspiring Dark Lords. Well, you'll show them. You'll show them ALL.'

Paw ponders the Dark Lord game a little.

Paw asks, "So we have a deck of cards that contains both the goals and the minions?"

Paw purrs, "And you shuffle it beforehand, deal out a set to each player..."

Calin says, "Minions is obvious. Nazgul, Kenlow, etc."

Calin says, "Give me some examples of goals."

Paw purrs, "And it goes like Draw, Play, Place Tokens, Maybe Accomplish a Goal."

Paw purrs, "Ummm, Orbital Megaweapon."

Calin grins. "Cool."

Calin says, "And this is a board game, upon which you place tokens."

Paw purrs, "You have to get the Tech guys to a really high resource level, and either some government or business."

Akili exclaims, "Sharks with Lasers!"

Calin exclaims, "On their freakin' heads!"

Paw purrs, "To bust out the Orbital Megaweapon, that is."

Calin nods, chuckling.

Paw asks, "But I'm wondering... is that it?"

Paw asks, "Build up resources to accomplish your Evil Goal?"

Calin says, "Nope, that's just the 'building your resources' part."

Calin says, "Because the megaweapon is, ultimately, just another resource."

Paw purrs, "Ah."

Akili rumbles lightly, "You need resources to build your Items Of Power."

Calin says, "The actual goal is to be the only one left."

Paw purrs, "So maybe each Goal Accomplished has nifty attributes attached to it."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Whether they be Microsopic Ants, or InstaSpoil Milk, or Volcanic Cannon."

Calin says, "And it may not be necessary, but having dratted heros wandering around could add to the fun, if it didn't add too much complexity."

Paw purrs, "Orbital Megaweapon has a Power of 10, a Prestige of 2 and a Panic of 5."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Perhaps...."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Perhaps Heros is how you could mess with other Dark Lords."

Paw asks, "And so you need to hit some threshold in one of those three categories to win the game?"

Akili grins. "Heroes are so prone to being manipulated, after all."

Calin says, "Starting to sound exactly like Before I Kill You Mr. Bond."

Calin says, "Tasty fruit and all that."

Paw purrs, "Hm, yeah."

Calin says, "Here's what I think."

Calin says, "I think that you can build up resources as much or as little as you want."

Calin says, "But eventually you have to go on the offensive."

Paw purrs, "Hm."

Calin says, "Put your resources where your mouth is (or would be if you weren't an ephemeral dork god) so to speak."

Paw purrs, "Here's one way to do that."

Paw purrs, "Have each 'Goal' have some sort of spiffy perk. But it also becomes a target."

Paw purrs, "So... Having that Mafia Extortion Ring gives me a chance to steal one resource from another player every turn."

Paw purrs, "But... if my opponent busts out a Yellow Hat dude with enough Government resources on him, he'll ruin my Extortion Ring."

Calin nods. "Good. Not just a spiffy perk, but a spiffy perk that feels a lot like an attack on your opponents."

Paw purrs, "So if I just held onto my resources... I could save my Mafia Extortion Ring until the very end."

Paw purrs, "And bust out all my Goals at once For The Win."

Paw purrs, "But... I'd lose out on all those spiffy perks along the way, and maybe take too long to win."

Paw purrs, "Ah, and I think we were talking about having action cards of some sort."

Paw purrs, "So: Goals, Actions, and Minions."

Paw purrs, "And the Minions could act as 'Heroes' like Akili mentioned... or gather resources for one of your Goals."

Paw asks, "So... how do you eliminate your opposition? Heroes? Actions? Goals?"

"Hmm. Right. What must you have to still be in the game?" asks Calin.

Paw purrs, "Goal: Stock Market Crash. Remove up to 10 resource tokens from anywhere on the board."

Paw purrs, "Err... business resource. Or something."

"Ok, what's the most basic unit of value? Resource tokens?" asks Calin.

Paw purrs, "Yeah, I think so."

Paw purrs, "You stock up on resource tokens of varying sorts."

Akili rumbles lightly, "Presumably you start with no resources, or very few."

Paw purrs, "And use them like Mana in magic to power differing sorts of goals, minions and stuff."

Calin says, "I think if you run out of resource tokens, and can't get more within one round, you're history."

"Oh, you get a certain number per round?" asks Calin.

Paw purrs, "Hm... I don't think we need Actions. Goals and Minions pretty much cover it."

Calin says, "Hmm."

Paw purrs, "I was thinking something like this:"

Paw purrs, "You get a number per round equal to the number of guys you have gathering resources."

Paw purrs, "You can place them wherever you want."

Calin says, "Well, pick SOMEthing then, and if you have none of it when you end your turn, you lose."

Calin says, "That works."

Paw purrs, "So if you have no minions gather resources... you can't gather any."

Paw purrs, "And you'd lose."

Calin says, "Counting it at the end of your turn always gives you one last chance to get more before dying, which is nice."

Paw purrs, "So to win... you have to eliminate your opponents' resources, and defeat their minions."

Paw purrs, "Or let everyone else do it for you."

Paw purrs, "And weather the storm."

Paw ponders the "If I have an agent in your city, he may give me info about the gathering of troops there or whatever." from the first conversation.

Paw purrs, "Having a board with resource tokens on it... it's a bit more obvious than your original statement."

Calin says, "Not all elements need make it into the game."

Calin nods.

Paw purrs, "Not sure how best to manage that."

Paw purrs, "True enough, but it's a bit of flavor that would be nice to work into the gameplay."

Calin says, "It's true."

Calin says, "One of my original ideas was that it would be a lot like clue."

Calin says, "Though that doesn't fit with how we've fleshed it out."

Calin says, "Imagine a game like clue, where you gather information. But when you think you have enough, you strike. And it's like battleship in that you might be completely wrong about where to attack."

Calin says, "Making such an attack would doubtless give opponents clues as to your own situation."

Calin says, "Now, it's sounding like a whole different game."

Calin says, "Which is ok too."

Paw nods, "I like the idea. Gonna need some innovative gameplay to pull it off as a boardgame."

Calin nods.

Calin says, "A major problem is how to hide and share information without encouraging cheating."